If It Quacks Like A Duck, Waddles Like A Duck...
Before you go nuts on me, read all the way through
Many years ago when I was still in my 'ute (did you say "ute"?), I once attended an Episcopalian worship service. I couldn't help but think to myself "this sure is a lot like a Catholic Mass!". Keep in mind I'm a 'Child of Vatican II'.
Anyhow, it wasn't until I started attending The Traditional Latin Mass that I came to the realization that it isn't the Episcopalians who are so much like us, it's us (Novus Ordo) who are so much like them.
In the past I've posted on how the New Mass (Mass of Paul VI) has adopted many of the changes made by the heretics during the Protestant Revolt of the Middle Ages.
I know that many of you reading this, if you absolutely had to be categorized, would refer to yourselves as Conservative Novus Ordo.
More than likely you regard Mass to be the Unbloody Sacrifice of Christ at Calvary and not as a community group hug/sing along. You're hard core anti-abortion. You adhere to all 7 Sacraments, etc, etc. As far as you're concerned, you sincerely do attempt to be a "good Catholic", in spite of the rampant heresy and scandal that has infected The Church even at it's highest places.
But I ask you to consider this; Do you still adhere to Protestant (or Protestant inspired) practices?
Communion in the hand is okay, as long as it's treated with reverence and respect, right? Countless popes, Saints and Doctors of The Church have spoken out against such for centuries and centuries. Are they all of a sudden wrong? Look at it this way... if Christ came down from the clouds right now, how would you greet him, on your knees in reverence and respect... or standing with a handshake?
Is frequent Confession really needed? After all, I'm a good person. God knows I am. Let's cut through the nonsense... the founders of Protestantism detested the Sacrament of Confession. Few will argue that there aren't flat out heretics in positions of power in The Church. For 40 years they've been prodding the Faithful into looking upon Confession as irrelevant. Something that we should only practice during Lent. Want the honchos to wake up and realize that we DEMAND a return to Catholicism? Go to Confession.
Mass in English, Spanish, German, Mongolian, Swahili, an African Click dialect, etc, is perfectly fine as long as the rubrics in the GIRM are adhered to and the Mass is said reverently. No way. Here's why; live languages present day are just that... live. The language evolves, words change meanings. Do we really want to play fast and loose with The Consecration? Bill Clinton once argued about the meaning of the word "is". And people took him seriously. Words change meaning in live languages. And when it comes to Mass, that's a dangerous thing. Look at it like this, would you feed your family at a restaurant that has a 70% health code rating... or one that is 100%? Both are legal and legit... right?
Possibly a better analogy would be if a doctor told a mother to give her newborn milk. The mother instead gives water with just a touch of milk. Watered down milk certainly won't kill the child, but it sure won't give all the nourishment the baby needs.
Before anyone gets all uber-pissed at me, know that I do consider the New Mass to be valid. I even attend one here locally from time to time (it's 70 miles round trip to the only Novus Ordo parish around where we have a Catholic priest who actually conducts himself and preaches like a Catholic priest! And the closest Latin Mass is about 230 miles round trip). But anyhow, the New Mass most certainly is valid, the problem is, it's so wide open for the possibility for scandal, abuse and error.
For some strange reason, I keep thinking about that 70% health code restaurant and the watered down milk for the baby.
Before you go nuts on me, read all the way through
Many years ago when I was still in my 'ute (did you say "ute"?), I once attended an Episcopalian worship service. I couldn't help but think to myself "this sure is a lot like a Catholic Mass!". Keep in mind I'm a 'Child of Vatican II'.
Anyhow, it wasn't until I started attending The Traditional Latin Mass that I came to the realization that it isn't the Episcopalians who are so much like us, it's us (Novus Ordo) who are so much like them.
In the past I've posted on how the New Mass (Mass of Paul VI) has adopted many of the changes made by the heretics during the Protestant Revolt of the Middle Ages.
I know that many of you reading this, if you absolutely had to be categorized, would refer to yourselves as Conservative Novus Ordo.
More than likely you regard Mass to be the Unbloody Sacrifice of Christ at Calvary and not as a community group hug/sing along. You're hard core anti-abortion. You adhere to all 7 Sacraments, etc, etc. As far as you're concerned, you sincerely do attempt to be a "good Catholic", in spite of the rampant heresy and scandal that has infected The Church even at it's highest places.
But I ask you to consider this; Do you still adhere to Protestant (or Protestant inspired) practices?
Communion in the hand is okay, as long as it's treated with reverence and respect, right? Countless popes, Saints and Doctors of The Church have spoken out against such for centuries and centuries. Are they all of a sudden wrong? Look at it this way... if Christ came down from the clouds right now, how would you greet him, on your knees in reverence and respect... or standing with a handshake?
Is frequent Confession really needed? After all, I'm a good person. God knows I am. Let's cut through the nonsense... the founders of Protestantism detested the Sacrament of Confession. Few will argue that there aren't flat out heretics in positions of power in The Church. For 40 years they've been prodding the Faithful into looking upon Confession as irrelevant. Something that we should only practice during Lent. Want the honchos to wake up and realize that we DEMAND a return to Catholicism? Go to Confession.
Mass in English, Spanish, German, Mongolian, Swahili, an African Click dialect, etc, is perfectly fine as long as the rubrics in the GIRM are adhered to and the Mass is said reverently. No way. Here's why; live languages present day are just that... live. The language evolves, words change meanings. Do we really want to play fast and loose with The Consecration? Bill Clinton once argued about the meaning of the word "is". And people took him seriously. Words change meaning in live languages. And when it comes to Mass, that's a dangerous thing. Look at it like this, would you feed your family at a restaurant that has a 70% health code rating... or one that is 100%? Both are legal and legit... right?
Possibly a better analogy would be if a doctor told a mother to give her newborn milk. The mother instead gives water with just a touch of milk. Watered down milk certainly won't kill the child, but it sure won't give all the nourishment the baby needs.
Before anyone gets all uber-pissed at me, know that I do consider the New Mass to be valid. I even attend one here locally from time to time (it's 70 miles round trip to the only Novus Ordo parish around where we have a Catholic priest who actually conducts himself and preaches like a Catholic priest! And the closest Latin Mass is about 230 miles round trip). But anyhow, the New Mass most certainly is valid, the problem is, it's so wide open for the possibility for scandal, abuse and error.
For some strange reason, I keep thinking about that 70% health code restaurant and the watered down milk for the baby.
6 Comments:
I have picked up a 1962 Baronius Missal. Incredible reading. I really wish I understood Latin though....
Therein lies the rub with using Latin exclusively: Even if you use Latin instead of the local language, the believers still translate the intent of the Latin text into their own language. Agnes Dei ends up being mentally translated to Lamb of God, so why not just say Lamb of God? It just means that translation needs to be carefully and prayerfully done to ensure a true rendition of the central tenets of our faith. I'm sure that the Holy Spirit does and will continue to assist in this.
I'm fairly sure that Jesus did not actually say " Hoc est einum corpus meum" during the Last Supper. Let's not strain at the gnats, let's instead go after the camels..
Carlton,
You'd be shocked how easy it becomes!
Jimbob,
Like I've posted before... Liturgical Latin is dead. What's said is meant, and what's meant is said. As I've posted before, live languages change and evolve their meanings. Do you really want to play fast and loose with the Consecration?
I'm not trying to be glib, but when you said Agnes Dei ends up being mentally translated to Lamb of God, so why not just say Lamb of God? It just means that translation needs to be carefully and prayerfully done to ensure a true rendition of the central tenets of our faith. I'm sure that the Holy Spirit does and will continue to assist in this, that's the same rationale used by luther, calvin, zwingili and the rest of the ecclesiastical thugs during the Protestant Revolt.
Also, I'm also fairly sure that Jesus did not actually say "Hoc Est Enim Corpus Meum" during the Last Supper. But is one is desirous of a Mass celebrated in anceint Aramaic, we have a number of the Eastern Rites of Catholicism
that do such. We don't.... we are, after all, The Church of Rome.
You know, Latin for the Church of Rome. Coptic for the Church of Alexandria. Aramaic for the Church of Jerusalem, etc, etc.
The Latin Rite has been offered in Slavonic and Classical Chinese in olden days...Also, I believe that if we had a literal and poetical translation, we wouldn't have these problems...
Dave,
The experiment in Classical Chinese died a rather quick death. And Mass (Liturgy) in ancient Slavonic is still available via the Greek Catholics (Byzantine Rite).
But nonetheless, live languages simply don't cut it due to the reasons I've already pointed out, no matter how literal or poetic. Eventually, the words would still change and evolve their meanings
Vir Speluncae Catholicus -
Wow - you really said a mouthful here! I was tired after reading it!
But - I like it. First of all - very nice that you have a pic of Fr. Solanus - I love this guy. Fr. Solanus and me have a few things in common. And also Fr. Vincent. I attend Holy Mass at a Missionary of Charity chapel every Sat morning - our faithful priest of 4 years was released by our diocese and accepted into the Army Chaplain program - he is now doing Gentlemen's training. God bless these men who are so giving of self.
I did not know this about Luther - about his part in the changes of the Mass - I will have to research that.
I do regard Holy Mass as the unbloody Sacrifice of Christ. I am hard-core anti-abortion (killing). I adhere to all 7 Sacraments, the full menu. I can not say that I am a good Catholic - all I can say is that I try - although I do fall now and then.
I do not believe that we should receive Communion in the hands. I am a disciple of Jesus, through the wonderful instrument of Blessed Mother Teresa. The mc sisters teach the children to always receive Jesus on the tongue - and I agree with this practice whole-heartedly.
Regarding Confession - is it needed frequently? The mMgisterium teaches us that it is.If we believe that we are receiving grace via the Sacraments, why not go to Confession frequently? Many Catholics go to Confession every week - I would suspect that most of them do not have mortal sin. It doesn't matter - they receive an abundance of grace! This is our faith. In my life, Confession is very important. When I am absolved, I do feel a remouval of a tremendous weight. And my faith tells me that my sins are not only forgiven, they are forgotton! How awesome is that! I am justified! Just as if I did not sin at all!
As far as the language used at Mass - I understand your point - language is alive and changing - the meaning of words change. Even the Holy Mass in Latin - some words may have had a different meaning 200 years ago. So - we will just have to live with Masses of different languages and cultures. It's OK - I still receive Jesus' Body and Blood. I still hear His words.
And I don't think anyone is mad at you. It is good to have these discussions - it makes us think. I am sure the early disciples had many discussions about many things. Of course, some left, some stayed.
I choose to stay.
God bless!
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