Was It The Motu Proprio, Or Possibly Something Else?Let the pouting of Roman Protestant bloggers begin!!
I came across yet another wimpy "Progressive" blog this fine morning, where the owner of such decided to attack my partner-in-crime, Former Altar Boy. Specifically, FAB's posting from yesterday entitled "Who Is More "Inside" the Church?"
Much like a drowning man clutching at a sword, the ever delusional and confused Tony over at "Catholic Tickle Fight" (or some such childishly named blog more befitting 12-yr-old girls at a sleep over) had to take his swipes at the FAB, Remnant columnist Brian Mershon, and the SSPX.
Now I realize that the Progressives are uber-pissed. And uber-pissed they should be. They just got smacked with a triple whammy of reality... and they don't like it one bit.
First, the Motu Proprio comes out. Then it slowly starts to dawn on them that this flirtation with Protestantism (AKA: The Spirit of Vatican II) just had it's punk card pulled. And to complete the hat trick, folks who have never set foot in an SSPX Chapel (like FAB) have the gall to point out that the SSPX is more in line with the desires of The Holy Father than the heroes of Roman Protestants everywhere; such as Cardinal Mahony, Bishop Trautman, Bishop Brown, etc, etc, ad nauseum. But hey, in all fairness to Tony, I never really did expect him to pay any attention to the obvious or to ever utilize common sense.
But the Gold Standard of Panic for Tony is when he stated "Protestants cannot be charged with the sin of separation. The SSPX can." What planet is this guy on? I guess he's never heard of the Protestant Revolt of the 1500's nor of the 30,000 and ever growing heretical and schismatic Protestant sects world-wide. Seriously folks... how is anyone suppose to take a blatantly stupid comment like the one Tony made, and still take him seriously? Simple - we can't.
But you know, this is exactly what FAB was pointing out. Ecumaniacs like Tony (and others Roman Protestant bloggers I've read the past few days) will give heretical Protestants a pass (if not a big ol' hug followed by a sloppy kiss), but will go after the SSPX with nothing short of what can best be described as blood lust.
Just so there's no confusion, be it known that I don't attend Mass as celebrated by the SSPX, I attend a Diocesan Mass. Does that still qualify me as a "Rad-Trad"?
And now it's time for some brutal honesty... if it weren't for Archbishop Lefevbre and the SSPX, there would have never been a Motu Proprio, an Ecclesia Dei Commission, or even a Latin Mass present day. It would have died decades ago. Archbishop Lefevbre kept it alive. And for that, we should all be eternally grateful to him. I know I am.
But you know what? I think I really know what caused The Spirit of Vatican II wimps to melt-down... their favorite whipping boy was right all along. And they're having a REALLY tough time dealing with it.
Oh, by the way... has anyone else noticed that initially it was everyone associated with the SSPX was considered excommunicated. Then the laity who attend a Mass as celebrated by the SSPX weren't considered such. Only the Clerics, Religious, and Third Order were considered excommunicated. Then another change from Rome came down, and the priests, Religious and Third Order weren't considered excommunicated, only the Bishops. Hmmm... in just a few short years, the numbers of those considered excommunicated by Rome went from one million down to just four.
It really isn't all that hard to see what's going to happen next. I can spot the obvious a mile away. Too bad Tony can't. But then again, he's busy kissing Protestant ass.
posted by Kevin Whiteman at
6:43 AM
17 Comments:
Caveman,
Don't think me a liberal--I'm not one in the least bit--but it's important to be accurate, so I must point to where Tony is coming from: Vatican II DECREE ON ECUMENISM--UNITATIS REDINTEGRATIO, which says in number 3, "But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions made their appearance and quite large communities came to be separated from full communion with the Catholic Church-for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame. The children who are born into these Communities and who grow up believing in Christ cannot be accused of the sin involved in the separation, and the Catholic Church embraces upon them as brothers, with respect and affection." See http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decree_19641121_unitatis-redintegratio_en.html
It seems that your dispute with Tony is based on an ambiguity in the terminology used. Which Protestants? Those who were baptized in the Catholic Church and rebelled or those who were baptized outside the Catholic Church and have descended from a long line of Protestants.
I'm just trying to be helpful in providing some clarity here.
I'm in sympathy with your analysis, but doesn't it mean something that the leaders are excommunicated? How can one feel good about sitting under the teaching of an excommunicate? Even if the Society priests are themselves not excommunicate, they derive their priestly office from their Bishops, who are excommunicate. I think some protestants have done great things for the kingdom, and so have the SSPX. That doesn't mean its a good thing to be a member of either.
What the hell is a "rad-trad"?
"Protestants cannot be charged with the sin of separation. The SSPX can."
How Absurd! Protestants--Protest the Catholic Church--Hello--they take our Bible and translate it according to their own doctrine--SEPARATING themselves from the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church!
The SSPX on the other hand just wanted to "hold on to the traditions of the Church."
sheesh, wah, wah, wah.
rad-trad is shorthand for Radically Traditional. It usually suggests those who dissent from the most recent reforms, to the point of denigrating legitimate authority for accepting things actually permitted by the II Vatican documents, such as using the vernacular in Mass.
A "rad-trad", short for "radical traditionalist", is someone who falsely claims to keep the Holy Tradition as an excuse to separate themselves from the Holy Church and from their proper bishop.
Robert and Taliesin,
Tony has an ax to grind with me, plain and simple. His ad hominem attack against Former Altar Boy was unwarranted and unprevoked. He just wanted to take a cheap shot... as usual.
But anyhow... Robert, that particular non-binding document from V2 simply doesn't cut it. If we're going to have TRUE dialoge... TRUE ecumenism with the Protestants, then we had better come armed with the truth that Catholicism is the One, True Faith that contains the fullness of Truth. Much as The Holy Father has recently stated via the CDF. If we fail to do such, then all we'll have is mealy-mouthed, weak-kneed, groveling ecumania the likes that Tony spews forth.
But I honestly do appriciate your thoughts, Robert. Please keep 'em coming.
________________________________
Taliesin,
Neither Former Altar Boy nor myself "fall under the teachings" of the SSPX. All FAB did was agree with Brian Mershon in his analysis that liberal priests constantly babble on about being huggy-touchy with heretical Protestantism... yet go ballistic at the mere mention of the SSPX.
And I voiced the opinion that if it were not for the Abp Lefevbre and the SSPX, then the Traditional Latin Mass would have been smothered to death years ago. And history will bear me out on that one.
And like I said to Robert.. I appriciate your thoughts as well, Taliesin.
____________________________
Cable Guy,
A "Rad-Trad" is, in the fevered mind of Tony, anyone who knows the Ave Maria by heart.
In that case I want to be a rad-trad too.
Karen Marie said...
A "rad-trad", short for "radical traditionalist", is someone who falsely claims to keep the Holy Tradition as an excuse to separate themselves from the Holy Church and from their proper bishop.
Does that include Anglicans, Lutherans and Calvinists who also falsly claim to keep Holy Tradition (as they see it per Henry VIII, Martin Luther, John Calvin) as an excuse to seperate themselves from the Holy Church and from their proper bishop?
Well... does it?
Vir,
Thanks for having my back.
"A 'Rad-Trad' is...anyone who knows the Ave Maria by heart." HAHAHA - loved it! How true!
Which brings is a nice seque to what I wanted to say to Tony Pillow Stuffing and his friends:
Do you believe the Blessed Virgin Mary, you know, the 'Christ-bearer,' the Mother of God, has a special place in the ecclesiology of your Church? You do? (*suprise*) Then let me ask you, other than maybe the Christmas story, how much time do you think our fallen away brethren spend honoring the Mother of their Brother (ergo, THEIR Mother)? Would zero sound about right? Then tell me what you think of the SSPX (of which I do not belong and have never attended) sending the Holy Father a spiritual bouquet (that a series of ...oh, nevermind) of something like 25,000 rosaries (you do know what they are, I hope). We will await your reply.
FAB,
Toni has been excavemunicated. He sent a cyber-pout whining how I keep deleting his posts.
Obviously, he isn't smart enough to recognize your rhetorical questions.
But I must say, I'm still wondering what it was that, out of nowhere, made him launch an attack on you on his blog. I think you may have hit a raw nerve.
Yep... you pointed out how his favorite whipping boy just might be right after all. That obviously sent him into orbit.
Silly FAB! How dare you point out the obvious!!
Cavey, you know I love you like a brother, but in fairness, as I read Tony's blog, it doesn't look to me like he's unhappy about the Motu Proprio.
This comment has been removed by the author.
Paul,
You may be right concerning the MP... but that doesn't negate that the guy is a first class jerk.
For no reason whatsoever, he initially decided to go after me on his blog concerning FAB's posting entitled "Who's More Inside The Church". Then 2 hours later, he realized that it was Former Altar Boy who posted it. So he changed things around and launched his hissy fit against FAB.
I don't recall instigating a damn thing against this freak, but for whatever sick reason, he sees no problem with going after FAB and myself. And then he has the audacity to claim that he's the victim.
This guy's a punk who deserves to get slammed.
But I do appriciate you trying to mediate. Thanks, Paul. But You know, I don't have to take his grief.
Catholic Pillow Fight??? And I'm supposed to take what they say SERIOUSLY??? Oh broher.
I understand Cavey, but as I read pillow bite he doesn't seem unhappy about the MP, and ripped "sister" shitsitter a new one. Just ignore him Sarge, turn the other cheek. On the other hand, how anyone can say something like prots are not responsible for schism is beyond me.
One thing I'd like to point out to the Roman Prots, by your Patriarch's words I, an Eastern Orthodox am a separated brethren, we love the MP, we applaud his reaffirming your Church's position, and that half of all the priests in the Antiochian Archdiocese in the USA are prot converts all without a Novus Ordo. Any idea why? Give you a hint, it's a keyword in the opening song of Fiddler on the Roof.
This may be off topic but I agree with your post that we should feel some measure of gratitude to the SSPX.
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