Is "Catholicism For Dummies" really a Novus Ordo missal?
The Rad-Trad who just won't go away
As I've said in the past, I consider the Mass of Paul VI to be a valid Mass. The door kicked wide open for scandal and error, to be sure. But valid nonetheless. But c'mon, sports fans, let's be honest. The New Mass is nothing more than a heavily heretical lutheran-inspired and equally heavily dumbed-down Latin Mass (and that's being generous).
But anyhow, how come none of the V2 crowd never complain about the "Rad-Novus Ordites"? Nary a word commenting on the so-called "priest" who recently held a "Funeral Mass" for a dog. And how many times have I brought up the "Animal Sacrifice Mass"? The Rad-Novus Ordites seem to miss these abominations. Funny, huh?
But rest assured, it's Rad-Trad this, and Rad-Trad that whenever anyone dares to mention anything even resembling Catholicism prior to 1962.
You know, it's funny... Saint Pio never said a Novus Ordo Mass. And we've all heard many a reason as to why he never did. Ranging from "he considered the New Mass to be evil" to "he wasn't able to learn the New Mass due to his advanced age".
The alter always make me chuckle. How could an actor who spent a lifetime performing the works of William Shakespeare suddenly find himself unable to master the complexities of Dr. Seuss?
But there's still no getting around it... St. Pio never celebrated a Mass of Paul VI. Period. Yeech... what a Rad-Trad!
Maybe it's because I'm Down South, but the NASCAR analogy comes to mind. If the new car you're using never wins you any races, possibly it's time to go back to the old one that did.
Under the Traditional Latin Mass, Catholicism flourished. Under the Mass of Paul VI, Catholicism is floundering. Yes, it really is just that simple.
In the mean-time, I'll keep patiently waiting for that wide and generous application that suppose to be given to those who rightfully are desirous of the Traditional Latin Mass.
The Rad-Trad who just won't go away
As I've said in the past, I consider the Mass of Paul VI to be a valid Mass. The door kicked wide open for scandal and error, to be sure. But valid nonetheless. But c'mon, sports fans, let's be honest. The New Mass is nothing more than a heavily heretical lutheran-inspired and equally heavily dumbed-down Latin Mass (and that's being generous).
But anyhow, how come none of the V2 crowd never complain about the "Rad-Novus Ordites"? Nary a word commenting on the so-called "priest" who recently held a "Funeral Mass" for a dog. And how many times have I brought up the "Animal Sacrifice Mass"? The Rad-Novus Ordites seem to miss these abominations. Funny, huh?
But rest assured, it's Rad-Trad this, and Rad-Trad that whenever anyone dares to mention anything even resembling Catholicism prior to 1962.
You know, it's funny... Saint Pio never said a Novus Ordo Mass. And we've all heard many a reason as to why he never did. Ranging from "he considered the New Mass to be evil" to "he wasn't able to learn the New Mass due to his advanced age".
The alter always make me chuckle. How could an actor who spent a lifetime performing the works of William Shakespeare suddenly find himself unable to master the complexities of Dr. Seuss?
But there's still no getting around it... St. Pio never celebrated a Mass of Paul VI. Period. Yeech... what a Rad-Trad!
Maybe it's because I'm Down South, but the NASCAR analogy comes to mind. If the new car you're using never wins you any races, possibly it's time to go back to the old one that did.
Under the Traditional Latin Mass, Catholicism flourished. Under the Mass of Paul VI, Catholicism is floundering. Yes, it really is just that simple.
In the mean-time, I'll keep patiently waiting for that wide and generous application that suppose to be given to those who rightfully are desirous of the Traditional Latin Mass.
posted by Kevin Whiteman at
8:09 AM
14 Comments:
A seemingly flourishing church does not collapse suddenly. There is a great article in the Oriens Journal dealing with this:
http://www.oriensjournal.com/7edit6.html
Also, remember that there are dioceses and religious communities which have plenty of vocations. They might be few and far between at this point, but if Our Lord's promise stands, they will be the one who ensure that the gates of hell do not prevail.
A seemingly flourishing church does not collapse suddenly.
The same was said of the Roman Empire. And many say that of the United States as well.
The flourishing Orders and diocese that you speak of present day are true enough. But let's be honest, Dave. They're the exception, not the rule.
It's bad enough to have heresy, scandal amd error assaulting us from without. Do we really want to invite invite it within?
I would contend that the Boomer Brand of Catholicism is on its last legs. The oldsters in the "established" Orders are complaining about the "conservatism" of the newer members. And most of the younger diocesan priests (such as St. Blog's own Frs. Jim Tucker and Erik Richsteig) are much more traditional. As far as women's orders are concerned, their slow demise of many of them is a great tragedy. But God might be sweeping them away to make room for the likes of the Nashville Dominicans, the Sisters of Mary, Mother of the Eucharist, and several others.
The Boomer Catholics are desperate, because we are on defrost mode at last.
I would be overjoyed if the church would mandate the Mass to be said with the same level of reverence that it is said in TLM Churches across the country.
"The New Mass is nothing more than a heavily heretical lutheran-inspired and equally heavily dumbed-down Latin Mass."
I can agree with all of the above statement except "heretical". If you mean that by "kick(ing) the door wide open for scandal and error" that heresies exist, I can agree with that. But, if, by "heretical", you mean the Novus Ordo is *in itself* heretical--well, I'd have a hard time truly beleiving that and staying in the Church.
God Bless.
Excellent points, Dave. Not much there I can disagree with!
The excorsism of the smoke of satan is long overdue
Dymphna,
Poor wording on my part. When I said "heretical", I was referring to the lutheran "Evangelical Mass". As we both know, they deny Transubstantiation, Sacramental Confession, etc, etc. Textbook examples of heresy.
The confusion caused is my fault. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to clarify
BTW saw a poncho lady on CNN today
...and what a stellar example of objective journalism THAT WAS!
The Clinton News Network strikes again
Thanks for clarifying that, Vir!
Angry Ortho: I totally agree with your statement: "Young people are hungry for the old ways and old practices, and well lets face it...the old faith." I am not so young myself, and I know *I* hunger for the old faith...I watched and lived through my faith being changed almost instantly before my eyes when I was a child. Thankfully, it was *after* a very orthodox nun taught us all about the Holy Eucharist in second grade. But sadly, many years of confusion followed.
WHy Honey Chile', remember, when JEsus said "the gates of hell shall not prevail" what that meant too was
"The gates of hell will try like hell to prevail"--so doan be too shocked, puddin'. Youse right --the tridentie mass is the mass of martyrs and saints...alas.
Pope & Islam on mah BACK Porch--please come add yore 2 cents worth.
Much obliged,
Aunty Belle
But there's still no getting around it... St. Pio never celebrated a Mass of Paul VI. Period.
I thought St. Pio died shortly before the NO mass promulgated...??
He was alive at the time
Are you sure?
Maybe I am getting my dates wrong.
St. Pio died in 1968.
The New Mass was promulgated in 1969 or 1970?
A. Long,
The Missal of 1970 was actually promulgated on Apr 3, 1969(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_of_Paul_VI#History).
And your right... St Pio passed away on Sept 23, 1968. (http://padrepio.org/default.asp?Page=sainthood&turnTo=2)
But please keep in mind that the 'transitional, or what some call the 'Hybrid Novus Ordo Mass' came into being in 1964. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_of_Paul_VI#History).
In 1964, the instruction Inter Oecumenici was issued by the Sacred Congregation of Rites, coming into effect in January 1965. This made significant changes to the existing liturgy, though the form of the rite was substantially preserved. Many sources speak of a "1965 Missal", but Inter Oecumenici represented a series of directions relating to the 1962 Missal and other matters, and no new Missal was published. Its changes included the following: use of the vernacular was permitted; the priest was permitted to face towards the congregation if he wished; there were some textual changes; and the Mass vestments were simplified. Further changes followed in the succeeding years, notably in 1967, with the publication of the document Tres abhinc annos, and in 1968, when three additional Eucharistic Prayers were authorized for use alongside the traditional Roman Canon.
It's also interesting to note that (then) Padre Pio was allowed to continue to celebrate the Tridentine Mass exclusively.
So it is factually correct to state that St Pio not only never said a Novus Ordo Mass, he also fought to keep the Tridentine.
Hope this helps,
VSC
Yeah I am aware of those things.
The thing that struck me as strange is if you watch St. Pio’s last Mass he is facing the people (and of course it is a TLM).
We should all know facing the people implicitly attacks the real sacrifice at Mass and priest's role as an intercessor rather than merely a "presider" as later texts ambiguously state.
So, for some reason St. Pio did not retain this one form of the TLM.
The source you quote states that this was optional.
One could conclude that he chose to face the people – a form that is not apart of the TLM and was adopted for use by protestants during the protestant revolt.
But one could also conclude that he was forced to in some way. If you watch his last Mass is helped up to the altar and his Latin is not very clear. Could he of just been helpless in the matter and forced to say Mass facing the people?
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