Again With The "We Become Jesus" GarbageI may not have a Masters degree, but I know heresy when I see it
Interesting lil' article on the Diocese of Raleigh website. Here's some of it;
Approximately 400 Catholic teenagers, adults, and college crew staff took part in the Disciples on the Journey retreat, Saturday, October 10 at Short Journey Center in Smithfield. For the past 33 years, the program has been known as Back to Earth.
The featured speaker was Dr. Greg “Dobie” Moser, D. Min., Executive Director of Youth and Young Adult Ministry in the Diocese of Cleveland, Ohio. In his presentation, he encouraged the teens to fall in love with Jesus in the Eucharist, noting “We become what we receive.”
Oh really? I become Christ? And this isn't the first time I've ran into this sort of thing.
Dr. Dobie's five word quote is pretty unambiguous... pretty straight forward: "We become what we receive". Kinda hard to take that out of context, or even to misunderstand exactly what he's saying. It's actually pretty simple -- If we really do believe that the Consecrated Host IS the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ, then by Dr. Dobie's reckoning, upon reception of such, we ourselves become the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ.
And that, gang... is heresy.
Especially in light of what both Sacred Scripture (Jn 6:56) and The Catechism of the Catholic Church (#1391) say on the subject; (Emphasis mine)
And there most certainly is a difference between union and abide, and become.
posted by Kevin Whiteman at
10:40 AM
15 Comments:
"Back to Earth" is an absolutly disgraceful diocesan youth program which I had the distinct disspleasure of actually attending one year back in the '90's when I was in high school. It is the epitomy of what it means to be "Me Church." The "cult of man" at Back to Earth is on full display for two miserable nights and days.
Honestly, attending it may in fact have been one of the many contributing factors to my complete loss of faith in the Roman Catholic Church as a very young adult.
Any Catholic with an ounce of dignity would not associate with the sort of emotional tripe that is fraudulently passed on as Catholic at these sorts of diocesan events.
I would never in a million years allow my child to attend one of these events.
Great point, great observation!!!
In the Book of the Apocalypse we find that Jesus gives each of His faithful a unique name. Thus, we do not become God even though we are united with Him through the Eucharist.
The Protestants tend to see themselves as joined to God, but this is not the same as being united with God. Jesus unites us through the Eucharist, and possibly through some other Sacrament (not sure).
The cosmic crowd likes to imagine themselves as one with God or God themselves.
Maybe there are other false teachings that spin off of the truth ... I'll keep my eye open for these ... see if I can spot any of them.
One thing I can see is that non-Catholics have a much less or even almost non-existent sense of unique personal identity. Jesus Christ provides His faithful with individual identities which develop the more we follow Him. Every saint is distinct from the rest of them. Do the Muslims claim this? Do the Protestants? The Jews? The Hindus or Buddhists? The animists? The new agers? Oops, the new agers claim everything.
OK, going to your link of Jan 08, and finding " Vir Speluncae Catholicus said...
But technically, the deacon was correct. When we receive the Eucharist, Christ's body, blood, soul and divinity, we become the Body of Christ, with Jesus as the Head.
I dunno, Mac. I will agree that for a very brief period of time, we do indeed, become Tabernacles due to the Real Presence being inside of us... but to believe that The Church teaches that we actually become Jesus is a notion that I've only recently been made aware of. And even that is one of the bitter fruits of the "Cosmic Jesus" garbage. "
Something to compare would be perfect and imperfect contrition: With perfect contrition, it is my understanding so far (not having actually experienced this state) that all the consequences of sin and guilt are removed. But still I do not think this state would make us become God.
Saints have manifested Godly powers and authorities such as the several demonstrated by St Pio, for example. I do not think that even St Paul who was taught in the Third Heaven, or Blessed Mary Ever Virgin ever claimed to become God. Let's see: St Paul said he won the race and would be given a crown. Blessed Mary was crowned Queen of creation. God became man in Jesus Christ; but did man become God in Jesus Christ? Like Shakespeare (of dubious morals) said, "That is the question".
We've probably heard the formula, "God became man so that man could become God": But does this imply the totality that some preachers and teachers insinuate? How could it, if the man Jesus did not become God?
Did the human nature of Jesus ever become the divine nature? We read in the Creed (yes, I will accept accolades for my poetry here) that He has two natures. So, if He still does, then there would be no way that His human nature has become His divine nature.
As far as I'm concerned, I'm going with this about 99%, until I find a better explanation.
Better yet, if man becomes God, then why does aging require ever more treatment to keep us from aging?
Yep, there is something suspicious in the claim that man becomes God. I have found on another blogsite that the heretics can use subtleties to trick the faithful, and that this is one of them. Trick the faithful into the vanity of believing themselves to "be as gods" ... wasn't there someone famous who said that? And ... oh yes, it was Eve and Adam who believed it, at least for a while.
This blog is too much. I just can't let this one go without blowing out a lot of wind.
"If we really do believe that the Consecrated Host IS the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ, then by Dr. Dobie's reckoning, upon reception of such, we ourselves become the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ."
This states that it is our belief that makes us become God! Well I know that faith has a lot of power, but this amount of power and authority is beyond the pale. It is like the power of positive thinking, where there is no natural limit. Why not simply claim that one is even greater than God? Oh yeah, that one has been taken.
Part of man's nature is to want more money: Therefore, divinizing this aspect of nature, one could morally rob banks, or become a politician, or even a bishop (note that there is an increasing public conflict among bishops, and therefore I take it as open season on the bad ones).
But back to becoming God for a few minutes after Holy Communion: Does that mean we should nibble on our pew neighbor? Don't let the teenagers in on this.
Over and out.
Yeah, there are a lot of doofuses and dingleberries out there.
Great points, VSC! This "Doctor" is clueless regarding the Cathechism and Holy Scripture. He has no business "teaching" what he doesn't know!!!
More trying to make the Faith relevant...ugh
You're absolutely right Cavey...
In hearing things like this I went towards Tradition.
Good catch. I like the confirmation you gave by reference to the Catechism. The "we become Christ" diminishes the transcendent and enforces the immanent, and works only to divinize man and "deontologize" the Risen Christ.
Cavey,
I understand your point and tend to agree with it. However, any heresy herein may be objective heresy rather than formal heresy on this fool's part.
I have seen these types of expressions so much (another is "We are Church") that I can easily chalk it up to the general hokiness of the modern conciliar Church, inspired to a great extent by a bland and pedestrian liturgy. All this stuff feeds on itself.
Just because this gent has a Dr. of Ministry, it does not mean that he is a well catechized Catholic. I cannot count how many times over the past 30 years I have heard occasional fatuous comments from individual Catholics, including allegedly catechized ones, who down play faith (i.e. doctrine and dogma) in favor of doing good as Jesus wanted us to. One deacon wrote in our archdiocesan newspaper that "Jesus came to earth to teach us how to love." I supposed afterwards He got into his flying saucer and then left for Mars.
Of course HE wants us to do good! I believe the Church calls this the corporal and spiritual works of mercy. But the Lord didn't come to save us from Caesar, but from the Devil and from ourselves!
Guys like in your article drive me to drink not that I have always needed an excuse! LOL It's a good thing I married into a non-drinking family.
End of sermon
My darlings Rel. Ed. Director said this in the Parents meeting.
"Tell your children, that when we eat regular food, it becomes a part of us. But, when we eat the Eucharist we become the food."
I was mad as H#LL for weeks.
Oh, and later we got a photocopied bulletin insert that stated "The Altar is Christ" shortly thereafter.
Where do you suppose these people get these ideas? Because I searched the CCC and didn't find that implied anywhere.
Do they go on little conferences and make balloon animals and felt banners, brag about their theological degrees?
(BTW I've got a Masters and Chesterton sums it up beautifully:
"Without education, we are in a horrible and deadly danger of taking educated people seriously." )
This is a case of someone taking St Augustine's words out of context - from one of the saint's homilies:
I remember my promise. For last night I promised you who have been baptized a sermon in which I would explain the Sacrament of the Lord’s table, which you now behold and which you became partakers of last night. You should understand what you have received, what you will receive, indeed what you should receive daily. That bread that you see on the altar and that has been sanctified by the word of God is the Body of Christ. That chalice – rather, that which the chalice contains – has been sanctified by the word of God and is the Blood of Christ. Through these things the Lord Christ wished to entrust to us his Body and his Blood, which he shed for us unto the remission of sins. If you receive them well, you are that which you receive. The Apostle says, “One bread and we, the many, are one body” (1 Cor 10:17). (85)
This kinda stuff happens all the time, and no one in authority does anything about it.
The blogger here edited the section from the newspaper article to justify an incendiary theological rant. Let’s review: A presentation to young people that includes: Jesus in the Eucharist, St. Augustine, love the poor, pray, ask God to help discern my vocation… And this is all upsetting?
The whole paragraph without edits:
The featured speaker was Dr. Greg Moser, D. Min., Executive Director of Youth and Young Adult Ministry in the Diocese of Cleveland, Ohio. In his presentation, he encouraged the teens to fall in love with Jesus in the Eucharist, and in a reference to the Sermons of St. Augustine noted, “We become what we receive.” He asked them to reach beyond themselves and love the poor and dispossessed. He told them to pray and to ask God, “What do you want me to do with my life?” and to listen for the answer.
Inside YMS,
What you say is interesting, but you haven't mentioned my painfully simple statement towards the end of my incendiary theological rant;
Nowhere in the Teachings of The Church does it ever say that we "become" Jesus. We most certainly are in union with Christ. No doubt that we abide in Christ, and He in us.
Can you cite anywhere in the above where I'm incorrect?
St Paul informs us that we are members of the Body of Christ ... not that each of us is God.
I received money the other day; does that mean that I become money?
I received absolution in the Confessional; does that mean I am now the personification of absolution? Then address me "Your Absolution-ness"; thankyou.
I received the evil eye once; am I now the evil eye?
OK, so have I proven that Moser is holding forth a religion other than the real one?
Sometimes phd means "piled higher and deeper", where ms means "more of the same" and bs means bs. So, Moser is one cow chip in a stack of many.
JLS,
I couldn't have said it any better.
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