Wednesday, April 22, 2009

A Couple Of Jaw Droppers
More "Springtime of the Church" gems...

From Le Forum Catholique; (Emphasis mine)
Chairman of the German Bishops conference : "Christ didn't die for the sins of the people"...

The Chairman of the German Bishops' Conference and archbishop of Freiburg, Robert Zollitsch, believes that
Christ’s crucifixion is just a psychological support for those who suffer.

On Holy Saturday, the archbishop denied the Expiatory Death of Christ in an interview with the German TV station 'Hessischer Rundfunk'. Christ "did not die for the sins of the people as if God had needed a sacrificial offering or something like a scapegoat" - the archbishop said.

According to him the dying Christ simply expressed "solidarity" with the suffering of the people even to death. This way, Christ showed, the archbishop said, that even suffering and pain have been taken up by God.

According to Zollitsch "this is the great perspective, the tremendous solidarity," that Christ went so far that he suffered all "with" me.

The journalist asked Zollitsch: "You would now no longer describe it in such a way that God gave his own son, because we humans were so sinful? You would no longer describe it like this?" To this question Zollitsch replied with a clear "no".

And then there's this from Canada, where a Cardinal compares abortion to killing in self-defense. Montreal Cardinal: "I am against abortion, but I can understand that in certain cases, there is almost no other choice than to practice it."

MONTREAL, April 14, 2008 ( - Over the Easter weekend, Le Devoir newspaper published a story based on an interview with Cardinal Jean-Claude Turcotte of Montreal, during which the Cardinal contradicted the teachings of Catholic Church on abortion and condoms.

In the interview Cardinal Turcotte, as quoted by Le Devoir, compared abortion to killing in self-defense, effectively equating the unborn child with a violent aggressor. "Personally, I am against murder," he said, "but can understand that sometimes, when someone is being attacked, they need to kill someone in self-defense. I am against abortion, but I can understand that in certain cases, there is almost no other choice than to practice it."
Could you imagine a Catholic leader saying something like this before 1962? Well, in all fairness, there were those that did. And they had the good manners to leave the Church. And these guys are in charge. Just more of the fruits of Vatican II.

Yeah... and us Traddies are the dangerous ones.


Blogger mark said...

Is that what Archbishop Zollitsc said, do we have any fluent German speakers to translate and confirm this or was he rejecting the protestant interpretation of Penal Substitution (Substituionary Atonement.). I think there is doubt about what he meant on this and it needs a bit more investigation just to be sure.

8:42 AM  
Blogger Vir Speluncae Catholicus said...

That's a fair question. Any German speakers out there?

BTW, (from what I've seen so far) is reputable. If they were a sede site, that would be one thing...

8:50 AM  
Blogger ignorant redneck said...

My german is only good enough to order beer, get slapped by pretty girls, and cooperate with PzGren Bn. 102 on the grenz--no theology!

But I have to say, just watching the war between the Catholic bishops and the heretical bishops, if I was in the catechumanate today instead of 34 years ago--I'd bail and go Orthodox! Because, if I didn't know better, I think the catholic church had gone seriously astray.

4:58 PM  
Blogger Adeodatus49 said...

The first thing I noticed is that he is wearing his stole outside his chasuble. How about following the rubrics, your excellency?

5:43 PM  
Blogger Clinton said...

My German is pitiful, but I do know of
one native-speaker who would doubtless
be fascinated to hear this Bishop explain

6:47 PM  

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