Monday, April 16, 2007

Vir Speluncae Catholicus' Take On Former Altar Boy's Latest Post
You know... the one about why some priests can't/won't learn the Traditional Latin Mass

One thing I'll say about my buddy, Former Altar Boy... when he posts a barn burner, he don't screw around! 39 posts in the ComBox and counting. Hey, that's an all time Lair record.

But anyhow, somewhere in all of the comments flying, someone mentioned that one of the possible reasons as to why some priests refuse to learn how to celebrate the Traditional Latin Mass, is because they're afraid that they may be ostracized by their own fellow priests.

With that said, there're a handful of priests here in my diocese (who shall remain nameless for obvious reasons) who have an affinity towards the Tridentine Mass. And as I have recently found out, they are (behind their backs) referred to by their fellow priests as "The Indulterers". And not in a friendly, joking manner either.

Also, I've even personally heard Catholic priests, from the pulpit no less, ridicule the Tridentine Mass. I've also heard those same priests describe those that attend the Latin Mass as some sort of gaggle of superstitious rubes who will all, hopefully, die out real soon so The Church can get on with the business of modernizing Herself. Or as they put it... itself.

So now we have two entire generations of Catholics who have been taught to sneer at, revile, and snicker at the Latin Mass as well as those who attend such. And they were taught this by Catholic priests. Is it any wonder that some Traditionalists have an "us against them" mentality?

I know I sure had it for a long time.


Blogger Brian Kopp said...

Sorry, its one thing to have an "us against them" mentality. Its another altogether to respond to the scorn of the world in kind.

Trad Catholics are supposed to be...different. Because we have the fullness of the Catholic Faith, and Grace, and the traditional Sacraments, and Traditional Latin Mass, etc.

If we don't act any different then exactly what are the fruits of this exalted traditional Catholicism? If you judge traditional Catholicism only by the online behavior and postings of its adherents, then traditional Catholicism will rightly be judged deficient.

4:15 PM  
Blogger Vir Speluncae Catholicus said...

Keep in mind what I typed... Is it any wonder that some Traditionalists have an "us against them" mentality?

I'm not asking anyone to agree with the "us against them" mentality... just understand why many have it.

There is a difference.

6:54 PM  
Blogger Alexander said...

When I visited the seminary again a few weeks ago a seminarian acquaintance of mine told me that at orientation he asked if he could take his free Sunday (once a month they get a free Sunday to leave the campus grounds) and attend the TLM down the street. Some priest apart of the faculty there gave him a negative answer and said (I'm paraphrasing) "you need to attend a real Mass."

Thanks to the wonderful wisdom of this priest we now know that the Church was offering "fake" Masses then since the 7th century..

8:29 PM  
Blogger Brian Kopp said...

A point well made and taken, thank you.

8:36 PM  
Blogger Anita Moore said...

I've also heard those same priests describe those that attend the Latin Mass as some sort of gaggle of superstitious rubes who will all, hopefully, die out real soon so The Church can get on with the business of modernizing Herself. Or as they put it... itself.

Well, haven't the anti-Tridentine Mass people been predicting the die-off of the hicks, hayseeds and rubes who want the Tridentine Mass for, oh, the last FORTY YEARS?

10:09 PM  
Anonymous Vir Speluncae Orthodoxae said...

I understand Cavey. It would help if Trad -read REAL- Catholics weren't such dang jerks. If I were looking at the Church, and visited a Indult or SPPX church and got the cold shoulder or callled a heretic, then visited a "Spirit of V2" church that was heretical but a heck of a lot nicer: Where do you think I'd go?

I'd like to visit a SPPX in town up here, but I don't feel like them calling me and my wife "schismatic heretic." I get enough of that online. If I want to be judged I'll try out for American Idol or break the law.

10:51 PM  
Blogger St. Jimbob of the Apokalypse said...

The scarlet "I" is a hard mark to live with as a priest, especially when one's peers are crypto-dissenters. Indultery. I like the ring of it.

10:31 AM  
Blogger 4HisChurch said...

Its sad when the persecution comes from within the Church itself. I think Satan has indeed infiltrated the Church and caused confusion and hatred.

11:06 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Caveman...I've heard comments at Mass from Priests at my old parish pickng on traditionalists. I thought it was rather strange at the time. Then after visiting some catholic forums, coupled with the shanigans at my old parish...they DROVE me to a traditionalist parish, Thank the Lord, I thank Him everyday. Let them speak, it will only drive their parishioners to the traditionalist parishes like they did me. LOL Haha!

11:41 AM  
Blogger Vir Speluncae Catholicus said...

No prob, bro!!


Vir Speluncae Orthodoxae,
Don't let a handful of jerks dissuade ya. Remember what Cdl Castrillon has already stated, the Faithful fulfill their Sunday obligation at a Mass celebrated by the SSPX.


Didn't you kmnow???? The Catholic Church didn't even exist until 1962!!!!

12:32 PM  
Anonymous Tony said...

We had a local Maronite community (Lebanese Catholics who celebrate the Maronite rite of the Catholic Church. They are the oldest rite which has been in communion with Rome since about 130) which met once a month at our Church.

I was curious, so I decided to attend this mass to find out what it was all about.

First off, I was greeted warmly by the people there. A young middle-eastern looking girl approached me with a missal and said: "Excuse me sir, you might want to use this one" (the one I had taken had no "facing pages" of English in addition to the Arabic script.)

The mass was completely chanted in Arabic, the scriptures incensed before the readings which were in English. The homily was in both Arabic and English, and candles, bells and incense were in evidence everywhere.

Communion was intincted by the priest and received on the tongue by each of the congregants (no in the hand stuff). The consecration was in Aramaic (the language of Jesus).

I hardly understood any of it (except I had a good idea what was happening because between the English translation of the prayers, there were statements like "The Deacon incenses the Holy Scriptures" which told me what prayer had come immediately before.

A wonderful, moving, inclusive and joyful Catholic Mass.

Why do I bring this up?

I would go back to this Mass and worship with this group of people (had the Mass not been canceled due to lack of participation, I believe). The people didn't appear to treat me condescendingly. They didn't look around to glare at those whose heads might not have been covered. They didn't appear to revel in the purity of their Mass and deny the validity of the Novus Ordo (as a matter of fact, a number of the community are regular parishioners at our church).

Their focus was on God in the Eucharist, in His word, in his priest (in persona Christi) and in his community.

Traditionalists who'd like to increase their ranks should keep this in mind.

1:47 PM  
Blogger PaulaB52 said...

You know, I don't know why NO people get so up in arms over Traddies. Everyone has their own type of Mass, teen, gospel, hispanic, deaf, etc. What difference should it make to anyone if some new priests want to celebrate Mass the way it was done before 1962? It's not like anyone is forcing them to attend that Mass.

If it weren't for blogs and the like I would have had no idea what Father was talking about at Mass the other day when he refered to the "for all" vs "for many" debate. Most people just looked confused. (he was bashing, of course, he's a for all type of priest)

2:42 PM  
Blogger paramedicgirl said...

Don't worry. The neos will die off for lack of reproduction. They all use birth control and the trad Catholic families have lots of kids. And the liberal priests are getting older and will be retiring soon; to be replaced by younger, more traditional priests. This is already happening. There is hope. God is renewing His Church in this way.

7:54 PM  
Blogger Former Altar Boy said...

Until I started attending the TLM Mass full-time, I took refuge (the exact words I told the pastor, too) in our local Maronite church for over 5 years just to escape the Novus Ordo. I found a number of other Western Catholics there for the same reason. The parish also had one Mass in English. Once I made the move, I found out many Western Rite Catholics were fleeing to the Eastern Rite churches (one Byzantine Rite parish even advertised an regular invitation!).
Cave visitors who don't have access to a traditional Latin Mass but are fed up with the ad lib novelties of the typical "New" Mass should look into any Maronite church near you, especially if you crave a deep respect for the Holy Eucharist and a very strong devotion to the Blessed Virgin.

8:31 PM  
Anonymous Tony said...

Until I started attending the TLM Mass full-time, I took refuge (the exact words I told the pastor, too) in our local Maronite church for over 5 years just to escape the Novus Ordo.

Former Altar Boy,

Were you "escaping" the particular flamboyant flavor of your local Mass? I say that because, the current rite can be celebrated with reverence. It can even be celebrated with chant, Latin and incence. I know. We do it at our parish.

An unfortunate side effect of the partuclar way the new rite was promulgated is that there are so many "flavors". I think that's a huge part of the problem. Not only can't you be guaranteed the same Mass from parish to parish, you can't be guaranteed the same Mass from pastor to pastor in the same parish.

When you're going down an unfamiliar highway, you might get hungry. You look at the food signs, and you see "Joe's eats", "Mom's Kitchen", "The Gondola Restaurant", and then you see it...

The Golden Arches!!!

So you pull in, not because the food is the best, because it isn't. You pull in because no matter where you go in the world, from Canada to Japan, the Golden Arches will always be the same.

This is an advantage that Micky D's has always had. They are a recognizable brand. I believe it is the same with the "other" rites either eastern or western.

8:40 PM  
Anonymous sarah said...

The local priests here have no interest in the TLM - they've been asked. One who is older and ordained before the NO doesn't want to offer TLM if MP is released. Another has said, "Latin is dead, and V2 put the TLM in its place: a grave."

To those who mentioned the Marionite Masses - I've never been to those, but I have been to a Melkite Rite Mass (all 3 hrs of it) and it was so beautiful. I would certainly attend a Melkite Mass if one was nearby instead of the NO.

Happy Easter!

7:18 AM  
Blogger Former Altar Boy said...

Yes, the NO can absolutely done reverently and I have attended a few in various places. Mass at the parish I left, however, began with the priest (every Sunday!) "high-fiving" those on the ends of the center aisle as he approached the sanctuary. Once there, the General Instruction for the Roman Missal was seldom followed.

1:51 PM  

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