Monday, July 24, 2006

Is Traditional Catholicism "Masculine"?
Part II
Just some random thoughts

There's an old saying within Trad circles... the cradle of vocations is found at the foot of the altar. Centuries upon centuries, those boys who served Mass looked to the priest as a heroic figure that they might emulate. Keep in mind, it wasn't all that long ago that it was common to see captain of the football team serving as an Altar Boy. Those days are pretty much over.

Alas, serving Mass in the vast majority of Novus Ordo parishes is now looked upon as a girl thing. Boys (being different from girls) want nothing to do with what they view as chick stuff. Many boys nowadays look upon serving pretty much the same way they look upon an afternoon of clothes shopping and painting each others toenails.

And think how unfair it is to those girls that now serve Mass. So close to the priest during Mass... but never to be able to be ordained.

And we wonder why we have so many women that scream for ordinations, and why we have so few men actually ordained.

Coincidence? More blurring of the distinctions? Too bad our own hierarchy can't see that.

On second thought...


Blogger Domini Sumus said...

Eh, I disagree with that. At my parish we have servers of both genders and we actually have many more boys than girls.

Several of our boys have informed us that they are considering a vocation to the priesthood and several of our former servers, both male and female, are now very involved in parish ministry. They serve are lectors, extraordinary ministers of Communion, on our parish council, and in our St. Vincent DePaul society.

9:30 PM  
Blogger Vir Speluncae Catholicus said...

Golly gee, why even have priests at your parish? Sounds as if the laity is doing it all.

5:19 AM  
Blogger Gaufridus said...

Girl servers are an outrage. I have to agree with VSC. Not only is it wrong, but it discourages boys and young men from wanting to serve.

6:28 AM  
Blogger prevat2 said...

I could not disagree more with you! If you think the introduction of "girl" altar boys, allowed by Rome since 1994 (thanks again, John Paul, for another wonderful novelty during your pontificate), does no harm to potential vocations, you are living in a dream world.

Little boys and young men do NOT want to be involved in professions that are seen as "female." In fact, when most young boys look at the post Vatican II sanctuary in the typical Novus Ordo parish, females basically run the place. The priesthood is no longer looked at as a manly, strong profession.

When the sanctuary is returned to an all-male domain, when the tabernacles are returned to the high altar, when the altar rails are returned, when the universal language of Holy Mother Church is returned to her people (Latin), then maybe, just maybe, we can return to the 1965 high of 48,000 men in American seminaries, and not the current 5,000. (Thanks again, to the beauty of Vatican II!)

9:07 AM  
Blogger Gaufridus said...

P.S. I say again:
Let women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted them to speak, but to be subject, as also the law saith.
But if they would learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is a shame for a woman to speak in the church.

--Corinthians, XIV : 34-35

Disagree with it all you want. Just realise that your disagreement is with God (the hallmark of Protestantism) and not with me.

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum

9:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Great post, Caveman. You nail it again!

10:20 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks, Caveman! Common sense on parade yet again. You nailed it!

10:21 AM  
Blogger Petrus Radii said...

I will go further and say that the Traditional Latin Mass itself is much more attractive to men (because it conveys the masculine much more completely) than the feminised fantasy filled with girlie-men, sodomites, and old barracudas in polyester stretch pants, which presents itself as the Novus Ordo.

I attended the Traditional Latin Mass in Rome in the early 1990's. Now it is nearly a national pastime in Italy for the men and boys to stay outside and smoke during Mass, if they come along to church at all. But in the case of the Mass of All Time, squirrelled away by the authorities in a church in some side street, nearly 60% of the congregation was men of all ages!

Bring back the Traditional Roman Liturgy, and men will start acting like men again!

5:37 PM  
Blogger Dave said...

It does say something that the Diocese of Lincoln, which alone does not permit altar girls, has a plethora of vocations.

Even the appearance of a bishop who espouses orthodoxy has a positive effect. Saginaw is now getting seminarians. Even Milwaukee is starting to get more men...

6:45 PM  
Blogger Former Altar Boy said...

I assume your response considered the title of VSC's post. So is it the English language you have a problem with or are you just so "politically correct" (either no brain, no balls or both) that you have become blind?

"Both" connotes a total of two, as in "The priest gave Holy Communion to both altar boys." We understand there are two boys present.

So where do you come up with "both genders"? There are three genders: masculine, feminine, and neuter. Yes, masculinity is normally a trait of the male sex and femininity a trait of the female sex. Because we have an all-male priesthood, we expect to see masculine traits, i.e. strength, bravery, courage, fortitude, selflessness, etc. demonstrated by out clergy. That is not to say women cannot demonstrate the same virtues, but we expect more of them in men, and others, more feminine traits to dominate in women. And, unfortunately, too many of our bishops demonstrate only neuter characteristics.

As prevatII says, normal boys do not look to women as role models. There are other ways for women to serve the church, but inside the altar rail should not be one of them.

And yes, it was serving at the altar and seeing those holy men at work that caused me, and others I know, to consider the priesthood as a possible vocation. God bless all those who did.

8:05 PM  
Blogger Domini Sumus said...

Wow, if this is the response I get to a simple post like the one I wrote, what will the response be to something truly heretical.

Your reactionary attitude and rude comments are truly un-Christian. You don't have the foggiest clue who or what I am, but you attack me in such a way.

I am a liturgist :::gasp::: (guess you saw that one coming), and a theology student (guess you saw that one coming too) who has been working to restore the Liturgy to its proper dignity. I don't think returning to the Tridentine Mass is the answer, but reforms definately have to be made.

If you think your attack is going to draw me any closer to your way of thinking, you are wrong. In fact, after making a huge move to the right, I think I just took one step to the left.

Good job guys!

That's ok, I was once told my a liberal Catholic that I was the problem with the Catholic Church because I was a conservative. (That was in my more moderate days) hehe, I don't think she ever met a real conservative.

8:52 PM  
Blogger Vir Speluncae Catholicus said...

No D.S.,
I think you are the one who simply "doesn't get it". You see, it's your brand of watered-down, Protestant inspired, happy-clappy drivel that has hastened the destruction of Holy Mother the Church for teh past 40 years.

And my dear, no one "attacked you". Disagreed with vehemently, yes. But "attacked"?

Give it a rest, hon.

9:08 PM  

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