The Lair of the Catholic Caveman

The Car Crash of Blogs. You Don't Want To, But You Just Can't Help But Look

Monday, March 16, 2009

Beeee Nooooooot Afraiiiiiiiiiiiid
For I'm your cosmic buddy

If the Nervous Disorder (oops, I mean Novus Ordo) is right, does that mean St. Paul was wrong when he told the Philippians; Wherefore, my dearly beloved, with fear and trembling work out your salvation.

10 Comments:

the Egyptian said...: ye haw, hootenanny, Priests in pants and Nuns in skirts, VII all the way; 7:55 AM
TCN said...: I don't know about you, but I'm pretty much afraid of that song, and everything that comes with it. That tripe qualifies as propaganda.; 10:07 AM
ignorant redneck said...: I am afraid to tell you about the current melt down in my parish with the Extraordinary Form people.; 9:47 PM
Kevin Whiteman said...: IR,
If you have the time, fill me in!; 8:42 AM
ignorant redneck said...: The priest who noramlly said the EF on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Sunday at 12:30 is very old--in his 90s. He had some medical prblems and is recovering from surgery, unable to say a mass in a parish setting yet.

our Pastor is perhaps the most orthodox priest I have met in years, and is very much a supporter of the EF. He is also very sure to Celebrate the OF IAW the norms established and desired by the Vatican: A reform of the Renwal type guy. Solemn Worship, music from the graduale, incense, smell bells etc. But, as he is the only priest for a parish of over 2500 people, it's taking him some time to become Idonus. he's working on it, but this is a priest who works 16-18 hour days and doesnt' even take his days off.

So, for the LTM community, he told htem he couldn't celebrate the EF as he isn't yet trained in it's rubrics, but he would celebrate the OF in Latin, with the Latin Choir etc.

Sunday, about half of them walked out rather than attend a solemn celebration of the Mass, in latin, according to the Missae Typica.

For it to be a valid Mass, you need three things:

Proper matter: A validly ordained priest, wheat bread and grape wine.

proper form: Which is decided by the Holy See. Which has decided that the Missae Typica uses the proper form. (It even uses the formula "pro multis".)

Proper intent: the priest must intend to confect the Eucharist as jesus did.

The fact that they walked out, leaving a group of about 100 for the rest of the Mass,makes me think that they either do not understand the theoplogy of the Eucharist, or that they debate the Authority of the Bishop of Rome over the Roman Rite. In either event, it seems to me to be a grave matter.

And walking out of the liturgy does two things: It introduces division within the Parish which hadn't experienced it before, and it can concievably endager the continuation of the EF at our church--which is the only one in the Diocese to regularly offer it.

What's worse, they were going to go to a schismatic chapel (not sspx) with problematic Holy Orders to fufil their sunday obligation.

Yep, I see a problem with that community.; 3:08 PM
Kevin Whiteman said...: IR,
I think I can understand why many walked-out (I would have, too).

For us Traddies, it's pretty basic. We want the TLM, as is our right.

We Traddies don't question the legitimacy nor the efficaciousness of such. But with that said, we don't want the Novus Ordo, be it in Latin, English, Korean, Swahili, Martian .... whatever. We want the Traditional Latin Mass, period.

I know you're a reasonable kinda guy, so I ask you to take a gander at the following site; http://www.latin-mass-society.org/missals.htm; 5:02 PM
Kevin Whiteman said...: Oops, when I said "the legitimacy nor the efficaciousness of such", I was reff'ing to the Missae Novus Ordo.; 5:03 PM
ignorant redneck said...: Vir,

I understand the frustration of the TLM folks--if it were some arbirtary decision to do this it would be grounds for unhappiness in the extreme.

But because Fr. can't be there due to surgery (he now has no bladder and is learning to navigate with a plastic bag), and our pastor not being idonus, what could reasonably be done? There is one other priest who is idonus in the archdiocese, and he is working outside the Archdiocese for a few months. our pastor is learning, in his almost non existant spare time, to say the EF mass. At his own expense.

All this while pastoring a large parish, being one of the Archdiocese's Canon lawyers, being on at least two tribunals.... .

I think that as a stop gap, it could be born. And the idea that they would leave to go to a schismatic Chapel, whose priest may not be validly ordained, appalls me.

I know you are a reasonable man, and I very much empathize with the disire for a beautiful and sublime liturgy. But the walk out really bothers me.

Like I said, it would be different if the Pastor arbitrarily put an end to the TLM--but he's working his ass off trying to get someone who can say it!

I'll be glad when we get someone who can. If Father becomes idonus, I would activly support the ending of one of the other Masses to allow him to say the EF while avoiding bination!

But the walking out is pretty bad, and a stab in the back to a man who bucked the archbishop (Kelly, before he retired) to have it for the people.; 7:29 PM
Kevin Whiteman said...: Believe me, I understand the problems that go with so few priests being able to celebrate the TLM correctly. And if it's a case where your parish is (for the time being) without a priest who can correctly celebrate the TLM... then everyone's going to have to suck it up.

Hey, I drive 5 counties away to attend the TLM.

Anyhow, getting back to folks walking out of Mass... were they led to believe that there was going to be a TLM said, but then a Novus Ordo Missae in Latin was presented? Do some of these folks feel as if they were (for lack of a better term) lied to?

Perhaps I was hasty when I said "I would have walked-out, too". If it was made clear to me that there was to be a Novus Ordo Missae celebrated in Latin, well... I might have gone, and then again, I might not have.

BUT!!! If I were reasonably led to believe that a TLM was to be celebrated, but when I got there, the fact of the matter was different? Ya know, no one likes being felt as though they were decieved.

And I agree that walking out of Mass is a pretty serious decision. The last time I did it, the Deacon informed the congregation that "when you recieve the Euucharist, you become Jesus". And then he looked very intently at us and said "you do believe that.... don't you?"

That's when the wife and I stoood up and said "NO! WE DON'T!" Then we proceeded to leave. And have not been back to that faux-Catholic "parish" since.

OK, with all that said, keep in touch, buddy.; 8:12 PM
ignorant redneck said...: Roger that!

I walked out of a N.O. where the priest at the epiclesis said "...so that they may SINGIFY for us the body and blood of Christ...".

I feel for the TLM folks in my parish. The next closet places are, I believe, Cincinatti and Indianapolis. That's a long, long way!; 9:23 AM