Then Let It Stand Or Fail On It's Own Merits
Put your money where your mouth is
More and more talk about the freeing of the Tridentine Mass. More and more whining and crying from some of the more liberal bishops of France, Germany, the United States, Canada, Australia, etc.
As I've stated many a time in the past, I've come to the conclusion that these liberal bishops are so dead-set against the Tridentine Mass because either they hate it, or they're afraid of it. I can't come to any other conclusion.
But anyhow, I remember reading sometime back that Fr. Franz Schmidberger, first Assistant to the Superior General of the SSPX, was asked if the SSPX demands the abolition of the New Mass.
He stated; "We do not demand the abolition of the conciliar Mass at first. With the liberalization of the Tridentine Mass, the conciliar Mass will disappear of itself." In other words, eventually the faithful will realize what an absolute watering-down of Catholicism the New Mass is, and eventually, it'll die on the vine. Agree, disagree or indifferent to what Fr Schmidberger said... that's irrelevant. At least he had the guts to let the world know where he stands.
Now when it comes to the liberal, Modernist, "Spirit of Vatican II" bishops.... why don't they have the same guts as Fr. Schmidberger?
Why don't they just call the pope's bluff? Why don't they just come out and say "we believe that the Tridentine is just for dinosaurs and a very small minority of cranks. If The Holy Father wants to liberalize the Latin Mass... then go right ahead! We're absolutely sure that the overwhelming majority of Catholics will reject the Latin Mass because of it's lack of tambourines, bongos, hand holding, feel good spirit, arm raising, shaking hands during The Sign of Grope, fast-food gingle hymns, spontaneous applause, chewing gum while taking Communion, self-worship, etc.
OK, all joking aside... if the anti-Latin Mass crowd is so cock-sure that the Mass of Paul VI is where it's at, then I challenge 'em to pony up and put their money where their mouth is.
But I doubt they will.
Put your money where your mouth is
More and more talk about the freeing of the Tridentine Mass. More and more whining and crying from some of the more liberal bishops of France, Germany, the United States, Canada, Australia, etc.
As I've stated many a time in the past, I've come to the conclusion that these liberal bishops are so dead-set against the Tridentine Mass because either they hate it, or they're afraid of it. I can't come to any other conclusion.
But anyhow, I remember reading sometime back that Fr. Franz Schmidberger, first Assistant to the Superior General of the SSPX, was asked if the SSPX demands the abolition of the New Mass.
He stated; "We do not demand the abolition of the conciliar Mass at first. With the liberalization of the Tridentine Mass, the conciliar Mass will disappear of itself." In other words, eventually the faithful will realize what an absolute watering-down of Catholicism the New Mass is, and eventually, it'll die on the vine. Agree, disagree or indifferent to what Fr Schmidberger said... that's irrelevant. At least he had the guts to let the world know where he stands.
Now when it comes to the liberal, Modernist, "Spirit of Vatican II" bishops.... why don't they have the same guts as Fr. Schmidberger?
Why don't they just call the pope's bluff? Why don't they just come out and say "we believe that the Tridentine is just for dinosaurs and a very small minority of cranks. If The Holy Father wants to liberalize the Latin Mass... then go right ahead! We're absolutely sure that the overwhelming majority of Catholics will reject the Latin Mass because of it's lack of tambourines, bongos, hand holding, feel good spirit, arm raising, shaking hands during The Sign of Grope, fast-food gingle hymns, spontaneous applause, chewing gum while taking Communion, self-worship, etc.
OK, all joking aside... if the anti-Latin Mass crowd is so cock-sure that the Mass of Paul VI is where it's at, then I challenge 'em to pony up and put their money where their mouth is.
But I doubt they will.
posted by Kevin Whiteman at
4:55 PM
13 Comments:
Either I receive Jesus in the Tridentine Mass or the conciliar Mass--either way I receive Jesus!
There's more to it than that, my friend.
The question was, why won't these cowardly bishops free up the TLM. I maintain that it's because they are cowards who are afraid to admit that they made a serious error in promoting this thing that resulted in massive defections from the faith.
Heck, if I were in their shoes, I wouldn't like to have to admit to such a collosal blunder either.
Honestly, I'm not very hopeful that Fr. Schmidberger is correct. I'd like him to be, but I doubt that the Motu Proprio will do so much to undermine the 1969 rite. And certainly not quickly.
What I think it may do, and what I hope, is that we will see the Pauline rite reformed, as people who see the beauty of the Pian rite, but still find it inaccessable, will look for elements of Latin and chant to be incorporated into the Pauline rite.
Pope JP2's most often used Scripture quote was "Fear not." Not that many of the bishops who hate or fear the Mass of Pius VI had any great love for John Paul, but maybe they should mediatte on that verse.
Paul, Schmidberger may not be right, but as Vir says, relaese the bonds and let the Latin Mass thrive or wirther on it's own merit. In any case, after 40 years of indoctrination in nonsense & novelty, it may take 40 years to turn things around.
There's another reason that many Bishops are opposed to the Trid. Mass: it would dis-employ hundreds of their pals, the Liturgeists--not to mention dis-employ "ministrettes" of communion, lay readers, and the usual members of the band--guitar, banjo, tambourine slappers and flappers, caterwaulers, and drummers galore.
How would they explain THAT to the Unemployment Comp. auditors?
I think the Bishops are committed to a "full-employment" economy. It's really Social Teaching, see?
Sign of Grope? LMAO!
I would respect the "Spirit of VII" Bishops if they would just come out with this truthful statement: "No matter what the Pope says, we have absolutely no intention of doing it anyway. Nor, do we expect that we will be forced to do anything less then what we dang well please. Nyah, nyah (tongue sticking out, nose thumbing)"
I don't get how all of a sudden, after 1500 years the Divine Liturgy of Pope St. Gregory the Great is "inaccessible". Folks who think that just aren't being taught.
Tara I have a few questions: http://www.sedevacantist.com/newmass/mystfide.htm
-Vir Speluncae Orthodoxae
Vir, am I to take the above link to mean that you don't believe that we receive Jesus in the N.O. Mass?
4HisChurch,
I find the New Mass of absolutely to be valid! The fatal flaw I find with it is that is said in the live, ever changing vernacular.
As I've said many times on this blog, what's said in Latin is meant, and what's meant is said.
The same can't be said for English, Spanish, Japanese, etc. Those are live languages. The words constantly evolve and change meanings.
"This IS My Body"
Remember when Clinton argued "what's the definition of "IS"? And people took him seriously. Words don't change meaning in Liturgical Latin... they do in English. The Novus Ordo has the opportunity for error/abuse kicked wide open. Why take chances with the Consecration?
But the main thing I', getting at with this post is this; why don't the hard core "Spirit of Vatican II" bishops let the Latin Mass stand or fall on it's own?
If their so sure it's a dud, then it'll fail and they'll be vindicated.... right?
Thanks for the reply, Vir! The latest papal document, which has apparently been somewhat fuzzily translated in the English, illustrates what you say about Latin vs. English.
annon:
So, what your saying is that the entire form of the Mass is necessary for validity--exact form and exact necessary words? So if you skipped one word the whole Mass is invalid?--Well alrighty-then.
My question is, if there is a 'liberalization' of the Latin, Tridentine, whatever, Mass, will SSPX return to the fold?
If not, let SSPX be anathema.
I am a huge fan of the Tridentine Mass, don't get me wrong. But if SSPX is still obstinate, they will go down like the 'Old Catholic Church' of Vatican I. They now allow 'women' priests and bless homosexual relationships.
Yes, the Old Catholic Church was 'more Catholic than the Pope', but after a century of being split from the Church they are another vanilla protestant love-gay, hate-tradition church.
Again, I want to make my point clear, I sympathise with SSPX and love the Tridentine rite Mass. But if SSPX continues to be schismatic let them be ANATHEMA.
For the gates of Hell will not prevail on the Church.
SSPX is doing just what all Protestants do--protesting God's Church, I agree with tito--let them be anathema!
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