tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18853193.post904880731859306554..comments2024-03-23T05:16:23.443-05:00Comments on The Lair of the Catholic Cavemen: Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18853193.post-54547941783782011142007-07-28T05:02:00.000-05:002007-07-28T05:02:00.000-05:00Dave,But was that his reason to call forth a counc...Dave,<BR/>But was that his <I>reason</I> to call forth a council? If so, isn't that quite a bit of overkill?<BR/><BR/>And if that was his reason... how exactly does "throw open the windows" translate to change within The Church? A watering down... a lowering of the bar... acceptance of error?Kevin Whitemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07019976622801954677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18853193.post-15759440928984276192007-07-26T20:26:00.000-05:002007-07-26T20:26:00.000-05:00I think Fr. Rutler said it best: when Bl. John wa...I think Fr. Rutler said it best: when Bl. John wanted to "throw the windows open", he wanted to let out some of the stuffiness, not let in a whirlwind. Fr. Rutler also has said that we will appreciate V2 when we see it as <I>a</I> council rather than <I>the</I> council.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01194200955033642204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18853193.post-61938714819741880352007-07-26T03:41:00.000-05:002007-07-26T03:41:00.000-05:00I think you hit the nail on the head with your com...I think you hit the nail on the head with your comment about the need to get sicker before you can truly get better. You nailed it.rob clemenz @ saintsforsinners.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04548262563517814104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18853193.post-88744910640043534272007-07-25T22:03:00.000-05:002007-07-25T22:03:00.000-05:00Its past time to separate the wheat from the chaff...Its past time to separate the wheat from the chaff.Athanasis Contra Mundumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02809651586349621296noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18853193.post-74575133892860543652007-07-25T20:51:00.000-05:002007-07-25T20:51:00.000-05:00James Akin has a blog about the TLM Database of pe...James Akin has a blog about the TLM Database of people who want to help it get off the ground all over the world:<BR/><BR/>http://www.lumengentleman.com/motucontacts.aspAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06215891114823229461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18853193.post-69838759238712981942007-07-25T20:30:00.000-05:002007-07-25T20:30:00.000-05:00Vir,I haven't read the documents myself yet, thoug...Vir,<BR/>I haven't read the documents myself yet, though I've seen them cited a LOT in the CCC promulgated by JPII. I strongly suspect that II Vatican Council wasn't actually a catalyst or an excuse for the distortions we've had to deal with, but rather something the progressivists waved around to distract us, much like a stage magician's off hand, handkerchief, wand, or cape.Arkanabar Ilarsadinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00098504849466846551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18853193.post-72847553299501305262007-07-25T20:02:00.000-05:002007-07-25T20:02:00.000-05:00Tara,First Bruce... now you. Two well thought out ...Tara,<BR/>First Bruce... now you. Two well thought out responses in a row! Thanks guys!<BR/><BR/>________________________________<BR/><BR/>Maureen,<BR/>THREE well thought out responses in a row!!! In just a few short hours, I've rcvd better answers than my couple of decades worth of asking the very same question to scores of Modernists priests. <BR/><BR/>But anyhow, Maureen... do you happen to know what Pope John said his reasons were? I've searched the 'net, and couldn't come up with any direct quotes.<BR/><BR/>Thanks.Kevin Whitemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07019976622801954677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18853193.post-12761483288248353092007-07-25T18:42:00.000-05:002007-07-25T18:42:00.000-05:00Actually, even back when Vatican II was called, Ca...Actually, even back when Vatican II was called, Catholics recognized that it was unique precisely because there was no reason for a council to be called. <BR/>Probably if you look at historical documents (catholic newspapers and such), you'll find references to this unique feature. <BR/>I don't think anyone has known the why of Vatican II, except perhaps Pope John XXIII and as far as I know he was very forthcoming with his reasons.code monkeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15415655769974691925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18853193.post-38182869107602521272007-07-25T15:30:00.000-05:002007-07-25T15:30:00.000-05:00vir... In the Book the Ratzinger Report, Our Pope ...vir... <BR/>In the Book the Ratzinger Report, Our Pope said: <BR/><BR/>"Whoever accepts Vatican II, as it has been clearly expressed and understood itself, at the same time accepts the whole binding tradition of the Catholic Church, particularly also the two previous councils. And that also applies to the so-called ‘progressivism,’ at least in its extreme forms…It is likewise impossible to decide in favor of Trent and Vatican I and against Vatican II. Whoever denies Vatican II denies the authority that upholds the other two councils and thereby detaches them from their foundation." <BR/><BR/>..."as clearly expressed"... I think that's the part that is so CLEARLY missing--so many have included their own mis-interpretations--major and even minor abuses such as the holding of hands during the "Our Father."<BR/><BR/>But, my opinion is that V2 is under the direction of the Holy Spirit--Our Pope will be the doctor who will prune away the diseased limbs. Good Post.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18853193.post-78997573462628105542007-07-25T12:36:00.000-05:002007-07-25T12:36:00.000-05:00Bruce,I agree with just about everything you state...Bruce,<BR/>I agree with just about everything you stated. But I still have to ask... what was the <I>reason</I> for the Council being called for in the first place?<BR/><BR/>(As I ask rhetorically) Was the real reason to discuss how The Church should act/react to the "modern world"? Was it to bring The Church <B>in line</B> with the modern world? Was it so The Church could/should <B>embrace</B> the modern world? <BR/><BR/>But I must admit... you're the first person to give me anything even resembling a straight answer. <BR/><BR/>Thanks, Bruce.Kevin Whitemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07019976622801954677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18853193.post-11551058348809163422007-07-25T10:16:00.000-05:002007-07-25T10:16:00.000-05:00Thanks for the thoughtful post. [Isn't it disconc...Thanks for the thoughtful post. [Isn't it disconcerting that those who reject the Church are so eager to defend "Vatican II."] <BR/><BR/>The role of the most recent of the 21 ecumenical councils in the life of the Church is immensely important. It is vitally important to do as you did and distinguish doctrine from discipline.<BR/><BR/>Although it proposed no new doctrine, Vatican II was called by the pope, presided over by the pope and approved by the pope. But it's not surprising that the media does not know that the successor of St. Peter is only bound by conciliar teaching that he himself has approved when that teaching is de fide. The pope could revise and reformulate any of the conciliar decrees on his own. <BR/><BR/>But Vatican II was called during very turbulent times (after WWII, the Holocaust, the Cold War, Vietnam, massive urbanization, globalization, and migrations, Sexual revolution). Ironically, the modernists who want to make Vatican II the starting point for their revolution forget that the pastoral documents of Vatican II must be understood against this backdrop as addressing new issues. Of course, pastoral directives of Vatican II, like those of all ecumenical Council's of the Living one, holy, Catholic, and apostolic Church, has its value, but that value is evaluated and interpreted by the successor of St. Peter. <BR/><BR/>That's why it would be wrong to elevate every word and document of Vatican II to the level of inspired Scripture. <BR/><BR/>Finally, what happened to Constantinople II? What about Lateran V? It is the apostolic teaching reaffirmed and explained by the Councils to which we must perpetually adhere.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10751094166090375495noreply@blogger.com